Reinventing Church Podcast
Follow Grace Church’s journey as they depart from modern church growth trends and reinvent themselves by equipping everyday Christians to live out their faith in real life.
Episode 40: Season Finale: MIC DROP Moments with Derek and Danielle
In Episode 40, Derek and Danielle unpack their top leadership “mic drop” moments of the season and turn them into simple, actionable practices for pastors. They also pull back the curtain on essential systems, a unique cultural moment of spiritual hunger, and a practical tool for planning meaningful half-day personal retreats.
Episode 39: From EVENTS to ENVIRONMENTS with Andrew Silbert and Sarah Burtt
In this episode, we explore how churches can shift from event-driven ministry to environments where real discipleship happens. Hear from Shane Stacey, Andrew Silbert, and Sarah Burtt as they unpack practical ways to design worship spaces, mid-size trainings, and small groups that actually produce transformation.
Episode 38: From HERO PASTOR to HEALTHY CHURCH with Jamaal Williams
If you’re longing for a healthier way to lead your church, this episode will encourage you. Dave Rhodes calls leaders to become hero-makers, and Pastor Jamaal Williams shows how everyday disciples can own real ministry in their own spaces. It’s practical, honest, and full of next steps you can use this week.
Episode 37: From SEEKER to SENDER with Chris Bellanger
What if your church became known less for who it gathers and more for who it sends?
This week’s Reinventing Church episode unpacks Dave Rhodes’ challenge to move from seeker to sender, rethinking what we celebrate, track, and multiply. Then Derek talks with Chris Bellinger about how churches can train and release everyday missionaries right where they are. Plus, a behind-the-scenes look at Grace’s new development roles and a practical “Now to Next” prayer tool for friendship and discipleship.
Episode 36: From GROWTH to DEPTH with Sarah Burtt
In this episode, Derek and Danielle, along with Pastor Sarah Burtt and the Clarity House team, tackle the shift from growth to depth. They unpack how to design discipleship environments that form people, not just fill rooms, share a behind-the-scenes look at mind-mapping job descriptions, and introduce four simple practices any leader can use to develop people, not just delegate tasks. Perfect for pastors and church leaders ready to rethink what “success” looks like in their ministry.
Episode 35: From CUSTOMER SERVICE TO COACHING with Stephen Hay
In this episode of Reinventing Church, Derek Sanford talks with Stephen Hay about how churches can shift from customer service to coaching, from keeping people happy to helping them grow. Learn how to spot consumer Christianity, create feedback-rich coaching cultures, and lead with courage instead of comfort. Plus, behind-the-scenes updates on Grace’s Awake the Lake vision and a new Tips & Tools on turning complaints into clarity.
Episode 34: From ASSIMILATION to ACTIVATION with Scott Michel
Are you still trying to fill volunteer slots, or are you activating callings? In this episode, Derek and Danielle talk with Clarity House’s Shane Stacey and Grace’s Scott Michael about moving your church from assimilation to activation and unleashing people to live out their God-given purpose.
Episode 33: From ATTENDANCE to APPRENTICESHIP with Jeremy Adelman
From Northern Lights and “read-minds-vs-fly” debates to deep reflections on what truly counts in ministry, Derek and Danielle explore how churches can move from attendance to apprenticeship. Dave Rhodes redefines success, and guest Jeremy Adelman shows how an old Minneapolis church found new life by focusing on training disciples who multiply. Perfect for church leaders ready to measure growth by transformation not turnout.
Episode 32: From TEACHING to TRAINING with Mark Canada
Most churches are great at teaching but weak at training. In Episode 32 of Reinventing Church, Derek and Danielle kick off with fall vibes in Erie, then dive into Dave Rhodes on building training centers. Derek sits down with Pastor Mark Canada of Parkway Bible to talk about shifting from passive content delivery to active, experiential discipleship. Expect practical tools, a fourth grader’s gospel story, and a conflict tip you can use today.
Episode 31: From STAFF-DRIVEN to LEADER-MULTIPLYING with Brent Minter
Is your church’s leadership pipeline multiplying or just maintaining? In this episode of Reinventing Church, Derek and Danielle sit down with Brent Minter, Lead Pastor of Keystone Church, to talk about making the critical shift from staff-driven ministry to leader-multiplying culture.
Episode 30: From COMPLEXITY to CLARITY with Phil Eubank
Is your church’s discipleship pathway clear—or just crowded? In this episode, Derek and Danielle talk with Phil EuBank of Menlo Church about moving from ministry complexity to clarity. Discover how to simplify your discipleship strategy, build shared rhythms, and guide people with a multiplication map instead of a ministry menu.
Episode 29:From SUNDAY to EVERYDAY
Most churches pour enormous energy into the Sunday service. And Sundays matter—worshiping together, preaching God’s Word, and gathering as a family of faith. But the truth is, people spend about one hour in church and 167 hours somewhere else.
Episode 28: SEASON 3 LAUNCH!
Season 3 launches with a look back at the 5 mind-shifting insights that shaped this journey, a preview of the 11 big shifts every church must wrestle with, and a timely conversation about AI and theological boundaries in ministry.
Episode 27: From Vision to Action: Crafting Our Future
In this special bonus episode of Reinventing Church, the hosts, Danielle. Derek and Aaron present an in-depth discussion aimed at helping their church staff internalize their vision frame.
Episode 26: Season Finale
Derek and Danielle reflect on 6 lessons they’ve been learning this season in the transition from a church growth model to a missional multiplication model.
Episode 25: A New Approach to Developing People
Beyond hopping people from program to program and calling it discipleship. How can the church actually develop people into Christlikeness. Join this fascinating conversation with Diane Wright.
Episode 24: How to Make the Shift from Church Programs to Relational Discipleship
Dave Rhodes and Shane Stacey from Clarity House talk about how churches can unintentionally lead with programs and how to pivot to a relational disciple-making approach.
Episode 23: From Teaching Center to Training Center
Dave Rhodes and Shane Stacey from Clarity House discuss the major shift happening in disciple-making churches to adopt an approach of training over teaching.
Episode 22: Reimagining worship gatherings through a missional lens
March 31, 2025
How should we think about our worship liturgy if we have a room full of missionaries vs. a room full of consumers? A conversation with Andrew Silbert.
Episode 21: Unleashing the Church Beyond Sunday with Pastor Dan White Jr.
March 24, 2025
An interview with Pastor Dan White about redefining church, measuring spiritual fruitfulness, and releasing leaders into everyday mission. Plus, Danielle and Derek swap wild church van stories and roll out a new staff training rhythm.
Episode 20: Focusing the Church on their Front Yard Mission with Pastor Dan Nold
March 17, 2025
Focusing a Big Church on Front Yard Missions: an interview with Pastor Dan Nold. And how his role as a pastor and the focus of his church shifted through COVID.
Episode 19: Strategic Partnerships: Cooperation or Competition?
March 10, 2025
Cooperation instead of Competition among churches. An interview with Pastor Stephen explores the challenging dynamic of big church and small church partnerships.
Episode 18: How to have Christian influence in secular spaces.
March 3, 2025
Embedded Influencer: We interview the energetic Angus Beibel about his exploits, reminisce about crazy youth group games, parse the differences between mega-churches and big churches, and resurrect some old church documents.
Episode 17: How to be a Savvy Follower of Jesus
February 24, 2025
Savvy Follower: Pastor Sarah interviews Steve Reisenauer while Derek and Danielle explore the church and pop culture, leading through the messy middle of a vision, and honoring volunteer leaders.
Episode 16: How to tell God’s story and our story
February 10, 2025
Compassionate Storyteller: Pastor Sarah interviews Tracy Dailey while Derek and Danielle reflect on the Power Team, deploying Christians in the real world, and the difference between addition and multiplication thinking.
Episode 15: HOW TO BE AN INTENTIONAL FRIEND
February 10, 2025
Derek and Danielle continue to reflect on some cringey megachurch memories this time exploring the days of church skits and drama teams. The explore a Dream Disciple role of how to be an Intentional Friend in an interview with Pastor Scott and Dave Case. They discuss the value of stepping back out of the weeds and asking bigger discipleship questions and finally reflect on a recent training session with small group leaders.
Episode 14: 3 DISCIPLESHIP LESSONS LEARNED THE HARD WAY
February 3, 2025
In this episode, Derek and Danielle relive the glory (or horror) of the overhead projector, tackle a listener question about shifting leaders into a training mindset, and discuss how to evaluate big church events through a disciple-making lens. Plus, practical insights from their Reinventing Church journey!
Episode 13: Reflecting on our Reinventing Church journey
December 9, 2024
In this episode Derek and Danielle call to mind some of their favorite Christmas albums of all time. They field a listener question about leaving churches that become too political. They also reflect on 6 lessons they’ve learned so far almost one year in to their Reinventing Church journey.
Episode 12: Helping Churches Find their Voice
December 2, 2024
In this episode Derek and Danielle explore Derek’s weird fantasy football league, and talk about baptism and salvation and how they are different. Then special guest Stephen Hay talks about some recent work he’s done in how to help big and small churches alike to find their voice in their region. Finally we celebrate some recent wins in our Awake the Lake vision.
Episode 11: How can the church help marketplace leaders?
November 25, 2024
In this episode we react to the birth of Derek’s first grandchild Ruby Jude! Derek offers 3 principles for HOW to leave a church. Then guest Mark Becker, an administrator at a large public high school, talks about his experience with the recent leadership intensive with a disciple-making bent. Finally, Danielle and Derek have a meltdown as they try to discuss aligning teams around Core Values.
Episode 10: EQ a key building block for discipleship and leadership
November 17, 2024
In this episode Danielle quizzes Derek on real Bible verses vs. AI pretenders. They explore good and bad reasons to leave a church. Then guest Pastor Justin Bleuer discusses the importance of EQ in ministry. And finally they reflect on the good and bad of annual meetings and Derek’s lingering PTSD.
Episode 9: DISCIPLESHIP IN DIFFERENT SIZED CHURCHES
November 11, 2024
In this episode Derek and Danielle discuss favorite vacation spots. They wrestle with the inbox question about why doesn’t our church always preach verse by verse through the bible? Then we’re joined by special guest Dr. Dan Nichols to talk about Pursuing discipleship in different-sized churches, and finally helping teams to own organizational change.
Episode 8: PURSUING YOUR CALLING IN DIFFERENT SEASONS OF LIFE
November 4, 2024
Derek and Danielle discuss theater, tackle the difficult question of why hell exists, and share the privilege and challenge of seeing people’s buy-in during discipleship orientations. Guest Mike Watson reflects on pursuing your calling through different stages of life.
Episode 7: Understanding your church’s local predicament
October 28, 2024
In this episode, Derek and Danielle share about life as sports families, discuss why Grace Church uses video preaching, explore what it means to understand and serve a church’s local predicament, and talk about the latest find-your-calling experience.
Episode 6: REDEFINING WHAT IT MEANS TO BE “CALLED INTO MINISTRY”
October 21, 2024
In this episode after talking about their top 10 movies, Derek and Danielle get into the great American debate about how people should vote. Then guest Andrea Bierer talks about an upside down way of thinking about pursuing your calling in the workplace. Finally we reflect on the good and the bad of our recent vision Sunday.
Episode 5: MEASURING THE RIGHT THINGS
October 14, 2024
In this episode we discuss buying and selling things inside the church and wouldn’t Jesus be flipping over some tables? Then we welcome Pastor Scott Michel to the podcast to discuss sports medicine, outcome measures, and how these experiences can help to measure discipleship in the church. Finally, Derek and Danielle discuss the importance of finding the “why” when meetings go off the rails!
Episode 4: THE CHURCH AS A TRAINING CENTER
October 7, 2024
In this episode Derek and Danielle talk about their personal coffee journeys, and answer some tough email questions about why the church doesn’t include every cause or ministry in their weekend announcements. The main conversation with Pastor Sarah Burtt focuses on the adjustments needed to make the church a training center and not just a teaching center. At the end Danielle and Derek reflect on a recent misstep and the proper order in which to innovate.
Episode 3: HAS GOD RELEASED YOU TO MOVE ON?
September 30, 2024
In this episode we’ll talk about why kids these days like their worship music so loud. The main conversation with Pastor Stephen Hay centers on how to know when it’s time to move on from a ministry and when it’s time to stay and double down. We also reflect on the importance of piloting new things before rolling them out. Bonus: we get breaking news on Derek’s preferred grandpa name.
Episode 2: IS IT TIME TO MAKE BIG CHANGES?
September 16, 2024
In this episode, Derek and Danielle dive into some NFL and Swifties controversy, we cover why we sing songs that come out of churches that we might not totally agree with theologically, how to know when it’s time to reinvent YOUR church, and a look at how we’re setting short-term goals to accomplish big things at Grace.
Episode 1: 5 MINDSHIFTS ABOUT REINVENTING CHURCH
September 16, 2024
Derek shares his personal journey of wrestling with God about the massive changes needed in church leadership and how it led to a bold new vision for reinventing the church.
INTRODUCTION
September 16, 2024
Join Derek Sanford and Danielle Hartland as they kick off the Reinventing Church podcast, exploring their church’s shift from an attractional model to a disciple-making ministry.
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In each episode, Derek answers questions from his inbox. If you’d like to submit a question, click below.