From GROWTH to DEPTH with Sarah Burtt
Episode Summary
In this episode of Reinventing Church, Derek and Danielle unpack one of the most important shifts a church can make: moving from growth to depth. Drawing from a powerful Clarity House segment with Shane Stacey, they explore the tension between building “bigger barns” (attendance, programs, giving) and being truly burdened for the fields; forming disciples who live and multiply a Jesus-shaped way of life in their everyday world.
They’re joined by Pastor Sarah Burtt, Grace’s Pastor of Content, to talk about how their team is re-engineering everything from reading plans to training environments to prioritize spiritual formation over mere information transfer. Sarah shares practical design principles for building tools that actually change people’s lived experience of following Jesus, using reflection, confession, simple next steps, embodied practices, and autobiographical moments to help people move from “wow” to “aha, I can do this.”
In the Behind the Curtain segment, Derek and Danielle walk through a recent staff development hour where the team used mind mapping job descriptions, a simple way to break big roles into smaller ownership areas and unlock new volunteer opportunities.
They wrap with four surprisingly simple practices that fuel development: intentional encouragement, catalytic conversations, on-time training, and candid feedback. If you’re a pastor or church leader trying to move beyond counting heads to actually forming disciples and multiplying leaders, this episode will give you practical language, tools, and next steps you can start using this week.
LINKS & RESOURCES
SHOW NOTES
- Big Question: Are you burdened to build a bigger barn—or are you burdened for the field? Church leaders often invest immense energy in “barns”—attendance, giving, and programming—while missing the deeper work of forming people for mission.
- Growth vs. Depth:
- True biblical growth always flows from spiritual depth. The pattern in Acts wasn’t “grow first, then form,” but formation that leads to multiplication. Healthy churches develop disciples who live and multiply a Jesus-shaped way of life.
- Four-Dimensional Discipleship:
- A mature disciple lives upward (with God), inward (with His people), outward (toward the world), and forward(toward multiplication). Formation and mission must remain inseparable—follow me and fish for men.
- Reclaiming Ancient Rhythms:
- Churches are rediscovering practices like silence, Sabbath, simplicity, and Scripture meditation—particularly resonant with younger generations craving authenticity and rootedness.
- Avoiding the Overcorrection:
- Spiritual formation that never overflows into mission can become self-focused. A healthy discipling culture balances being with Jesus and being sent by Jesus.
- Practical Anchors:
- Build your discipleship culture around three questions:
- What is Jesus saying to you?
- What are you doing about it?
- How can I help?
- When these become the heartbeat of your church, formation naturally leads to mission.
- Key Challenge:
- Stop measuring only how many show up—start measuring how many grow up.
- Maturity isn’t attendance, it’s living with and for Jesus in everyday relationships.
Key Insights from Pastor Sarah Burtt (Grace Church)
- Why Churches Chase Growth:
- It’s easier to measure attendance than transformation. Counting heads feels like progress—but it’s not the same as forming hearts.
- From Information to Transformation:
- Sarah described redesigning Grace’s discipleship tools—from simple Bible reading plans to formation plans that help people move from observation to reflection, confession, and practical next steps.
- Practical Example:
- Each reading plan now includes:
- Read the passage
- Reflect on what it means
- Confess what it reveals
- Act on a simple next step
- These small prompts retrain people to be doers of the Word.
- Teaching Skills, Not Just Knowledge:
- Formation happens when people are taught to practice faith—learning confession, prayer, and reflection as daily habits.
- Creating Aha Moments:
- Grace is intentionally moving from “Wow, that teaching is great” to “Aha, I can do this.” Training moments are framed for accessibility, not admiration.
- Spiritual Rhythms and Reflection:
- Built-in pauses, breathing, silence, and reflection are intentional. “It’s not more words,” Sarah says, “it’s more pause.” Even short breathing moments prepare hearts to receive.
- Formation in Community:
- Confession and vulnerability are treated as gateways to transformation. Group exercises that name barriers or shared struggles create unity and authenticity.
- Storytelling and Celebration:
- Churches that prioritize formation must also celebrate it. Shifting to a storytelling culture helps track and amplify transformation.
- Pastoral Application:
- Visit people in their workplaces or homes. Ask: “How is Jesus showing up here?”
- Equip business leaders and parents for everyday ministry.
- Redefine “winning” as developing people, not just filling programs.
- Navigating the Depth vs. Growth Tension:
- It’s not either/or—depth fuels width. To house church leaders, “If it works…you’ll need a bigger living room.” True depth always multiplies.
- Personal Transformation:
- Sarah reflected on Psalm 16: “The boundary lines have fallen for me in pleasant places.” She sees God expanding her influence and stretching her beyond comfort—formation leading to fruitfulness.
Behind the Curtain
Topic: Mind Mapping Job Descriptions
Grace staff used a simple mind-mapping exercise to visualize their roles.
- Start with your job title in the center.
- Branch out to your major responsibilities.
- Keep branching until you get to actionable tasks.
- Then ask: Which of these can only I do?
Benefits:
- Clarifies what’s core to your role.
- Reveals what can be delegated or developed in others.
- Creates bite-sized ownership areas for volunteers.
- Helps leaders trade “doing time” for “developing time.”
Mind-mapping breaks big jobs into small, transferable pieces—the foundation for volunteer empowerment and leadership development.
Tips & Tools:
**Tip:**Surprisingly Simple Practices that Fuel Development
Derek shared four practices any leader can build into their rhythm to become a people developer rather than just a task manager:
- Intentional Encouragement – Regularly name and affirm growth in others.
- Catalytic Conversations – Ask the right questions that draw out potential.
- On-Time Training – Provide coaching right when someone needs it most.
- Candid Feedback – Offer loving correction that sharpens rather than shames.
Development flows downstream from these rhythms. Leaders who model them naturally multiply leaders.
